(uplifting music)
- Hi, this is Lea Woodford with "Between the Lines,"
and today I'm with Robin Cutler and Justine Bylo,
and they're of Ingram Spark.
Now, Robin, can you tell our viewing audience
what Ingram Spark is?
- So, Ingram Spark is a self-publishing platform
where anybody that wants to make their book
available to the world can do it through Ingram Spark.
It's kind of magical.
We love it.
We launched it about six years ago.
As an author, you can print your book,
you can make it available as an ebook,
and Ingram Spark allows all of that to happen.
- Wow.
Now, Justine, you and I met.
You brought Robin to me.
- Yes.
- But tell me about
why you guys are so different
than everybody else in the publishing community.
- Absolutely.
So we are owned by Ingram,
which is the largest book distributor in the world.
So we are not only a self-publishing platform,
but we have the entire power
of the Ingram distribution network behind us.
So we get your book to 39,000 print distribution partners
and all of these ebook distribution partners, as well.
So not only are our books beautiful quality,
but we can make your book available throughout the world.
- Now, how has the publishing industry changed
with self-publishing?
(Robin and Justine laugh)
(Lea laughs)
- It's changed radically.
- It has?
- By the day. (laughs)
- I would say,
I would say it really started about 20 years ago,
and Ingram had a big part of that.
Ingram created this self-publishing
print-on-demand technology.
It's 20 years old now, if you can believe that.
And also, Amazon started about that time, too.
So the power of
being able to reach readers directly
like you can through Amazon,
as well as being able to print on demand
and not have to invest in inventory
is where everything started to change.
And now, an author doesn't,
have to wait and go through a publisher
to get their content to the world.
They can do it themselves,
as you very well know.
- I do know, but nobody told me
it was gonna be shark-infested waters,
because let's face it,
there are a lot of not-so-authentic publishers,
and I mean, I hear the horror stories.
- Yeah, there's some bad actors out there,
and we hear it all the time, too,
and it breaks our hearts.
I recently met a gentleman and his wife,
and he had spent something like $50,000
to get a paperback book done,
and it was filled with errors,
and it didn't have to be that way.
And I know you've heard stories like that too.
- I have, I have.
I've had four people in my kind of circle
that have gone through the same publisher,
so-called publisher,
a lot of grammatical errors,
and $30,000, the rights to their book were taken away.
What can authors do to protect themselves?
- I would say that the first thing that they do
is do their research
and arm themselves with lots of education
about not only the publishing industry at large,
but also how much things cost,
and who are the reputable people
in the industry to do that work.
Places like the Author's Guild,
their whole job is to protect authors.
And in today's world,
authors have a lot more power than they used to,
so really hold onto that.
And so, the Author's Guild has a great list of people
who they say, "Don't work with these people."
Take a look at that list.
- Yeah, and I would say,
it's good to be part of a tribe as an author.
And you're doing that
with the work that you're doing through SmartFem,
through the Independent Book Publishers Association,
through the Alliance of Independent Authors,
the Author's Guild.
It's good to not be out there on your own.
- Well, when I wrote my first book, "Lead, Share, Empower,"
I realized, "Oh my God,
"I know nothing about the book industry."
(Robin and Justine laugh)
And while you spend a year pouring your soul into this book,
"What do I do next?"
And that's a big problem.
- You are not alone. (laughs)
(Robin and Lea laugh)
- Yeah, because you have to,
after you finish writing,
and you know how hard it is to write a book.
It is excruciatingly hard.
Then, you have to learn how to become a publisher,
and that's a completely different hat.
Becoming the business owner of your own work
is what you become, right?
To be successful.
- It's so true.
You not only have to be an author these days,
you also have to be an entrepreneur
and run your own publishing company.
And again, I think education has a lot to do with that.
The publishing industry hasn't really changed much
in a really long time,
but because of that, a lot of things are very archaic,
and learning those rules and how things work
can be really difficult for authors.
So there are, we have a lot of education at Ingram Spark
to help those authors.
So please, please, please,
arm yourself with that information
because it helps authors succeed,
and when they succeed, we succeed,
and we love to see that happen.
- Yeah, and I would add to that,
so if you, and you know yourself
and the kind of work that you want to do.
Maybe you just want to write
and you want to partner with
or hire someone that can help you.
And you definitely should hire an editor.
I don't care,
even if you're gonna be traditionally published,
it's good to have your work edited
before you even submit it for review for a publisher.
So hire an editor, hire a designer, hire a marketer.
- It takes a team, doesn't it?
- It does take a team. - Yes, it's a small army.
(Justine laughs)
- Can you tell our viewing audience
the difference between traditional publishing,
self-publishing, and hybrid publishing?
- Absolutely.
So traditional publishing is what people think of as,
"I'm gonna go out and get that agent,
"and then that agent is gonna go pitch my book to"--
- Does that really happen?
- It actually does. - In New York.
Only in New York. - It does in New York.
And I'm from New York, so it does happen.
Agents go out and speak to editors at publishing houses
and get deals, and bring those deals back to their authors,
and then those authors accept the deals,
and then it's typically a two-year process
until that book actually gets seen by the world.
So it can take a lot of time.
However, you then give control over your book--
- The rights.
- The rights to that publishing house.
And I know a lot of authors
that I work with don't like to do that,
and then they go the self-publishing route,
which now, used to have a stigma.
Now, that stigma's been debunked.
- It's kind of like a badge of honor.
- Yeah, yeah, you've done it yourself.
But then there's the hybrid publishing world,
which is where you hire a company
to do all that work for you.
So they edit your book,
they do the design for your book,
they market your book.
However, again, those companies can be predatory,
and so we say to people, "Please do your research
"about those companies before you hire one."
And again, there are many resources online
about who is good and who is not so good.
But then there's the self-publishing world,
which we represent,
and we feel is a great fit
for many, many authors these days,
and is not, does not have the stigma it used to.
And many, many wonderful books are being published
through the self-publishing route.
- Yeah, and I used to be a publisher myself,
so I always say,
"Go out there and see,
"try the traditional route."
If you get frustrated, give yourself a date
of how long you will commit yourself to that path,
and then after that date, you have other options,
like with self-publishing or with hybrid publishing.
- Well, when I wrote my first book,
this was shocking to me.
And I decided I needed some PR,
so you go to New York,
you talk to one of the top PR agents.
This really floored me.
"It's gonna be $7,500 a month,
"three-month minimum."
- It's expensive. - Yep. (laughs)
- "And we're not gonna guarantee you anything."
- [Justine] No, yeah.
- Most new authors
don't have that kind of budget.
How can new authors
kind of learn how to self-promote
and market themselves?
- Well, you need to think more than one book,
and I know you talk about this, too.
And actually,
Ingram Spark was given an award
by the Author's Guild a few years ago,
and we were awarded at the same time
that James Patterson also won the award.
Isn't that fantastic?
- That's amazing.
- She got to hang out with James Patterson and Toni Morrison
for a night. (laughs) - And Toni Morrison.
- Oh, wow.
- So that was kind of cool.
But one of the things that stuck with me,
what James Patterson said was,
it was his 12th book
before he actually got traction.
So it's a long, you should--
look at the long road. - It's a long game.
- Yeah, long game.
More than one book.
Typically, your third book before.
So you're building audience
as you go along with each book,
and it's brick by brick and step by step,
and you've got to remember that.
And the life of a book has a long life, too.
That's the other thing
to always remember.
- And not everyone is your audience.
So when authors come to me and say,
"My book is for everyone,"
I always say to them,
"No, no, your book is not for everyone.
"I hate to break it to you."
So you have to find your people,
because when you do,
you know how to market to them.
And that is a giant hurdle to overcome.
And so, once you do find those people,
then you can find out how they like to use social media.
You can find out how they consume media,
and so then you can very much narrow your marketing plan.
And once you start to tweak those little things,
it all starts to come together.
And to Robin's point, that might be at book 12, but,
or it might be at book one,
if you really get it right
by some divine intervention.
But it does take time.
- And nowadays, the marketplace really demands
that the publisher really specify
who the audience is more and more.
For instance, on children's books,
if you're a children's book author,
you have to not,
you have to know not only the age range
of that child that you've written the book for,
but also the grade range.
So you have to be very specific.
The more specific you are,
the more successful you're gonna be.
- Let me ask you this.
How has Amazon affected the book world?
(Robin laughs)
(Justine exhales)
- In about every way possible, I would say.
- Yeah. (laughs)
- And I used to work at Amazon, so,
it's definitely the powerhouse, I would say,
along with Ingram, in the publishing industry.
The two, and we get questions about either or,
because Amazon has its self-publishing platform.
It was CreateSpace.
Now it's been rebranded as KDP, Kindle Direct Publishing.
But we live side-by-side really happily.
At Ingram Spark, we can make your book
available on Amazon directly,
just like if you went direct to Amazon.
So that's a great thing.
Amazon is one of Ingram's largest customers.
- Congratulations.
- Yeah, so we treat Amazon
with great respect and awe, almost.
- I love Amazon. (laughs)
- Yeah, I mean who doesn't?
They are 70% of the book market, between 60 and 70,
but then there's also that other 30 to 40%
of the book market that people can't ignore,
and those are the independent bookstores,
Barnes & Noble, libraries.
And so they are this huge player in the industry,
but also people have to understand
that there is this whole other world out there
that they have to give some love to.
And so, through Ingram Spark,
you can actually do that,
which is a good thing.
- That is amazing.
- A lot of people, and you know this.
They want to see their book on Amazon
but they also want to sell books at their local bookstore,
or they want to see the book
on the shelf of their local library, right?
I mean, that's really meaningful
to authors and their communities.
- Well, and I'm just gonna say, I love print.
I love print magazines.
I love the smell, I love the texture.
They're so tactile,
and it's so different.
- Well, print is still 70% of all the books sold.
I mean, print, as a technology,
years ago, when ebooks came out,
everybody was saying it was the death of print.
That absolutely has not happened.
It is, I don't think readers are ready
to get rid of their print books.
I'm like you.
- I can't.
- I still buy hardcovers.
- I love hardcovers.
- Yeah, I'm such a hardcover junkie.
- And my favorite authors, especially.
I'm always waiting on the edge of my seat
for Amy Tan and her next book.
She's absolutely my favorite author.
- Wow.
How about you?
- Oh my God. (exhales)
That's so hard.
I'm a romance novel reader, (laughs) admittedly.
- I'm a Stephen King fan.
(Justine laughs) - Oh yeah, absolutely.
- Yeah, that's so hard.
But I do love my hardcovers
because I'm a beach baby
and they stand up to the suntan lotion
and the saltwater really well. (laughs)
- And that's the great thing about Ingram Spark.
We can, through print-on-demand technology,
we can even do a hardcover book for you,
which is-- - That is amazing.
- It's magical, I'm not kidding.
It's totally magical.
- Thank you guys so much.
- Thank you. - Thank you.
- This has been Lea Woodford with "Between the Lines."
Thanks for watching.