1 00:00:00,499 --> 00:00:03,082 (upbeat music) 2 00:00:05,130 --> 00:00:07,740 - Hi, this is Lea Woodford with Between the Lines 3 00:00:07,740 --> 00:00:11,520 and today I'm with Robin Cutler and Justine Bylo, 4 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:13,390 and they're of Ingram Spark. 5 00:00:13,390 --> 00:00:16,250 Now Robin, can you tell our viewing audience 6 00:00:16,250 --> 00:00:18,190 what Ingram Spark is? 7 00:00:18,190 --> 00:00:21,274 - So Ingram Spark is a self-publishing platform 8 00:00:21,274 --> 00:00:24,940 where anybody that wants to make their book available 9 00:00:24,940 --> 00:00:27,360 to the world can do it through Ingram Spark. 10 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:28,910 It's kinda magical. 11 00:00:28,910 --> 00:00:32,138 We love it, we launched it about six years ago. 12 00:00:32,138 --> 00:00:35,498 As an author, you can print your book, 13 00:00:35,498 --> 00:00:38,790 you can make it available as an ebook, 14 00:00:38,790 --> 00:00:41,670 and Ingram Spark allows all of that to happen. 15 00:00:41,670 --> 00:00:42,700 - Wow. 16 00:00:42,700 --> 00:00:46,058 Now Justine, you and I met and you brought Robin to me. 17 00:00:46,058 --> 00:00:46,891 - Yes. 18 00:00:46,891 --> 00:00:51,210 - But tell me about why you guys are so different 19 00:00:51,210 --> 00:00:54,090 than everybody else in the publishing community. 20 00:00:54,090 --> 00:00:56,150 - Absolutely, so we are owned by Ingram 21 00:00:56,150 --> 00:00:59,340 which is the largest book distributor in the world. 22 00:00:59,340 --> 00:01:02,550 So we are not only a self-publishing platform 23 00:01:02,550 --> 00:01:04,640 but we have the entire power 24 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,490 of the Ingram Distribution Network behind us. 25 00:01:07,490 --> 00:01:12,430 So we get your book to 39,000 print distribution partners 26 00:01:12,430 --> 00:01:15,770 and all of these ebook distribution partners as well, 27 00:01:15,770 --> 00:01:19,073 so not only are our books beautiful quality 28 00:01:19,073 --> 00:01:23,953 but we can make your book available throughout the world. 29 00:01:23,953 --> 00:01:27,476 - Now how has the publishing industry changed 30 00:01:27,476 --> 00:01:29,220 with self-publishing? 31 00:01:29,220 --> 00:01:32,000 - It changed radically. 32 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:33,236 - By the day. 33 00:01:33,236 --> 00:01:36,010 - I would say, I would say it really started 34 00:01:36,010 --> 00:01:39,740 about 20 years ago and Ingram had a big part of that. 35 00:01:39,740 --> 00:01:42,735 Ingram created this self-publishing, 36 00:01:42,735 --> 00:01:45,156 print on demand technology. 37 00:01:45,156 --> 00:01:48,458 It's 20 years old now, if you can believe that. 38 00:01:48,458 --> 00:01:52,910 And also Amazon started about that time too, 39 00:01:52,910 --> 00:01:57,910 so the power of being able to reach readers directly 40 00:01:58,580 --> 00:02:00,310 like you can through Amazon, 41 00:02:00,310 --> 00:02:03,050 as well as being able to print on demand 42 00:02:03,050 --> 00:02:05,550 and not have to invest in inventory 43 00:02:05,550 --> 00:02:07,930 is where everything started to change 44 00:02:07,930 --> 00:02:11,274 and now you know, an author doesn't 45 00:02:11,274 --> 00:02:14,554 have to wait and go through a publisher 46 00:02:14,554 --> 00:02:17,300 to get their content to the world. 47 00:02:17,300 --> 00:02:20,110 They can do it themselves as you very well know. 48 00:02:20,110 --> 00:02:22,500 - I do know, but nobody told me it was gonna be 49 00:02:22,500 --> 00:02:25,830 shark-infested waters because let's face it, 50 00:02:25,830 --> 00:02:30,400 there are a lot of not so, not so authentic publishers 51 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:32,810 and I mean I hear the horror stories. 52 00:02:32,810 --> 00:02:35,380 - Yeah, there's some bad actors out there. 53 00:02:35,380 --> 00:02:37,872 We hear it all the time too and it breaks our hearts. 54 00:02:37,872 --> 00:02:42,480 I recently met a gentleman and his wife 55 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,510 and he had spent something like $50,000 56 00:02:45,510 --> 00:02:49,514 to get a paperback book done and it was filled with errors 57 00:02:49,514 --> 00:02:52,596 and you know, it didn't have to be that way 58 00:02:52,596 --> 00:02:55,570 and I know you've heard stories like that too. 59 00:02:55,570 --> 00:02:56,680 - I have, I have. 60 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,658 I've had four people in my kind of circle 61 00:02:59,658 --> 00:03:02,630 that have gone through the same publisher, 62 00:03:02,630 --> 00:03:07,630 so-called publisher, lot of grammatical errors 63 00:03:07,634 --> 00:03:11,030 and you know, $30,000 the rights of their book 64 00:03:11,030 --> 00:03:12,390 were taken away. 65 00:03:12,390 --> 00:03:14,869 What can authors do to protect themselves? 66 00:03:14,869 --> 00:03:18,380 - I would say that the first thing that they do 67 00:03:18,380 --> 00:03:20,990 is do their research, and arm themselves 68 00:03:20,990 --> 00:03:24,960 with lots of education about not only the publishing 69 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,874 industry at large, but also how much things cost 70 00:03:28,874 --> 00:03:33,535 and who are the reputable people in the industry 71 00:03:33,535 --> 00:03:35,200 to do that work. 72 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,470 Places like the Author's Guild, their whole job 73 00:03:38,470 --> 00:03:41,940 is to protect authors, and in today's world, 74 00:03:41,940 --> 00:03:44,440 authors have a lot more power than they used to 75 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,240 so you know, really hold onto that 76 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:49,320 and so the Author's Guild has a great list 77 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:53,350 of people who they say don't work with these people. 78 00:03:53,350 --> 00:03:55,280 Take a look at that list. 79 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:59,470 - Yeah, and I would say it's good to be part of a tribe 80 00:03:59,470 --> 00:04:00,303 as an author. - Yes. 81 00:04:00,303 --> 00:04:02,820 - And you know, you're doing that with the work 82 00:04:02,820 --> 00:04:04,513 that you're doing through Smart Fem, 83 00:04:04,513 --> 00:04:07,930 through the Independent Book Publisher Association, 84 00:04:07,930 --> 00:04:10,030 through the Alliance of Independent Authors, 85 00:04:10,030 --> 00:04:13,690 the Author's Guild, it's good to not be out there 86 00:04:13,690 --> 00:04:14,750 on your own. - Yeah. 87 00:04:14,750 --> 00:04:18,138 - Well, when I wrote my first book, Lead, Share, Empower, 88 00:04:18,138 --> 00:04:21,100 I realized oh my god, I know nothing 89 00:04:21,100 --> 00:04:22,970 about the book industry. 90 00:04:22,970 --> 00:04:26,850 And you know, while you spend a year pouring your soul 91 00:04:26,850 --> 00:04:30,470 into this book, what do I do next, 92 00:04:30,470 --> 00:04:32,378 and that's a big problem. 93 00:04:32,378 --> 00:04:34,474 - You are not alone. 94 00:04:34,474 --> 00:04:35,520 (laughs) 95 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,030 - Yeah, because you have to after you finish writing, 96 00:04:38,030 --> 00:04:40,058 and you know how hard it is to write a book, 97 00:04:40,058 --> 00:04:44,436 it is excruciatingly hard, then you have to learn 98 00:04:44,436 --> 00:04:46,760 how to become a publisher and that's 99 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:48,134 a completely different hat. 100 00:04:48,134 --> 00:04:51,810 Becoming the business owner of your own work 101 00:04:51,810 --> 00:04:55,810 is what you become, right, to be successful. 102 00:04:55,810 --> 00:04:56,710 - It's so true. 103 00:04:56,710 --> 00:04:58,910 You not only have to be an author these days, 104 00:04:58,910 --> 00:05:00,892 you also have to be an entrepreneur and run 105 00:05:00,892 --> 00:05:04,760 your own publishing company, and again, 106 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,560 I think education has a lot to do with that. 107 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,870 The publishing industry hasn't really changed much 108 00:05:10,870 --> 00:05:14,210 in a really long time, but because of that, 109 00:05:14,210 --> 00:05:16,300 a lot of things are very archaic 110 00:05:16,300 --> 00:05:20,030 and learning those rules and how things work 111 00:05:20,030 --> 00:05:21,736 can be really difficult for authors, 112 00:05:21,736 --> 00:05:25,630 so there are, we have a lot of education 113 00:05:25,630 --> 00:05:28,175 at Ingram Spark to help those authors, 114 00:05:28,175 --> 00:05:32,490 so please, please, please arm yourself with that information 115 00:05:32,490 --> 00:05:34,690 because it helps authors succeed 116 00:05:34,690 --> 00:05:37,440 and when they succeed, we succeed and we love 117 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:38,500 to see that happen. 118 00:05:38,500 --> 00:05:41,909 - Yeah, and I would add to that, so if, 119 00:05:41,909 --> 00:05:44,470 and you know yourself and the kind of work 120 00:05:44,470 --> 00:05:46,767 that you wanna do, maybe you just wanna write. 121 00:05:46,767 --> 00:05:47,600 - Yeah. 122 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:49,900 - And you want to partner with or hire someone 123 00:05:49,900 --> 00:05:52,600 that can help you and you definitely should hire 124 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:56,140 an editor, you know, I don't care, even if you're gonna 125 00:05:56,140 --> 00:05:58,240 be traditionally published, it's good to have 126 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,455 your work edited before you even submit it for review 127 00:06:01,455 --> 00:06:03,490 for a publisher. 128 00:06:03,490 --> 00:06:05,850 So hire an editor, hire a designer, 129 00:06:05,850 --> 00:06:07,840 hire a marketer. 130 00:06:07,840 --> 00:06:09,340 - It takes a team, doesn't it? 131 00:06:09,340 --> 00:06:11,215 - Yes, it's a small army. 132 00:06:11,215 --> 00:06:14,972 - Can you tell our viewing audience the difference 133 00:06:14,972 --> 00:06:18,790 between traditional publishing, self-publishing, 134 00:06:18,790 --> 00:06:21,250 and hybrid publishing? 135 00:06:21,250 --> 00:06:22,090 - Absolutely. 136 00:06:22,090 --> 00:06:24,794 So traditional publishing is what people think of 137 00:06:24,794 --> 00:06:29,140 as you know, I'm gonna go out and get that agent 138 00:06:29,140 --> 00:06:32,413 and that agent is gonna go pitch my book to-- 139 00:06:32,413 --> 00:06:33,980 - Does that really happen? 140 00:06:33,980 --> 00:06:35,523 - It actually does, yes. - In New York. 141 00:06:35,523 --> 00:06:37,950 - It does in New York, yeah, and I'm from New York 142 00:06:37,950 --> 00:06:42,230 so it does happen, and agents go out and speak 143 00:06:42,230 --> 00:06:45,316 to editors at publishing houses and get deals 144 00:06:45,316 --> 00:06:49,130 and bring those deals back to their authors 145 00:06:49,130 --> 00:06:51,630 and then those authors accept the deals 146 00:06:51,630 --> 00:06:54,138 and then it's typically a two-year process 147 00:06:54,138 --> 00:06:57,898 until that book actually gets seen by the world. 148 00:06:57,898 --> 00:07:00,314 So it can take a lot of time. 149 00:07:00,314 --> 00:07:05,314 However, you then give control of your book, 150 00:07:05,556 --> 00:07:08,760 the rights to that publishing house 151 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:10,770 and I know a lot of authors that I work with 152 00:07:10,770 --> 00:07:11,818 that don't like to do that, 153 00:07:11,818 --> 00:07:14,320 and then they go the self-publishing route 154 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:16,790 which now, it used to have a stigma 155 00:07:16,790 --> 00:07:18,740 and now that stigma's been defined. 156 00:07:18,740 --> 00:07:19,720 - It's kind of like a badge of honor. 157 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:21,674 - Yeah, yeah, you've done it yourself, 158 00:07:21,674 --> 00:07:24,554 and but then there's the hybrid publishing world 159 00:07:24,554 --> 00:07:29,320 which is where you hire a company to do 160 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:31,830 all that work for you, so they edit your book, 161 00:07:31,830 --> 00:07:35,098 they do the design for your book, they market your book. 162 00:07:35,098 --> 00:07:39,098 However, again those companies can be predatory 163 00:07:39,098 --> 00:07:42,880 and so we say to people please do your research 164 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,770 about those companies before you hire one 165 00:07:45,770 --> 00:07:49,018 and again, there are many resources online 166 00:07:49,018 --> 00:07:54,018 about who is good and who is not so good. 167 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,020 So, but then there's the self-publishing world 168 00:07:57,020 --> 00:08:01,610 which we represent, and we feel is a great fit 169 00:08:01,610 --> 00:08:03,840 for many, many authors these days 170 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,740 and does not have the stigma it used to 171 00:08:07,740 --> 00:08:11,852 and many, many wonderful books are being published 172 00:08:11,852 --> 00:08:14,410 through the self-publishing route. 173 00:08:14,410 --> 00:08:16,534 - Yeah, and I used to be a publisher myself 174 00:08:16,534 --> 00:08:20,700 so I always say you know, go out there 175 00:08:20,700 --> 00:08:23,375 and sit, try the traditional route. 176 00:08:23,375 --> 00:08:26,092 If you get frustrated, give yourself a date 177 00:08:26,092 --> 00:08:30,750 of how long you will commit yourself to that path 178 00:08:30,750 --> 00:08:32,916 and then after that date you have other options 179 00:08:32,916 --> 00:08:36,954 like with self-publishing or with hybrid publishing. 180 00:08:36,954 --> 00:08:37,787 - Yeah. 181 00:08:37,787 --> 00:08:40,660 - Well you know when I wrote my first book, 182 00:08:40,660 --> 00:08:44,740 this was shocking to me, and I decided I needed 183 00:08:44,740 --> 00:08:47,120 some PR so you go to New York, you talk to one of 184 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:49,740 the top PR agents, this really floored me. 185 00:08:49,740 --> 00:08:53,380 It's gonna be $7,500 a month-- - Yeah. 186 00:08:53,380 --> 00:08:55,390 - Three-month minimum-- - Yep. 187 00:08:55,390 --> 00:08:57,580 - And we're not gonna guarantee you anything! 188 00:08:57,580 --> 00:08:58,920 - No, yeah. 189 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:03,310 - Most new authors don't have that kind of budget. 190 00:09:03,310 --> 00:09:07,120 How can new authors kinda learn how to self-promote 191 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:08,460 and market themselves? 192 00:09:08,460 --> 00:09:11,640 - Well you know, you need to think more than one book 193 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,120 and I know you talk about this too, 194 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:19,120 and actually I, Ingram Spark was given an award 195 00:09:19,250 --> 00:09:21,066 by the Author's Guild a few years ago 196 00:09:21,066 --> 00:09:23,408 and we were awarded at the same time 197 00:09:23,408 --> 00:09:26,240 that James Patterson also won the award. 198 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:27,610 Isn't that fantastic? - That's amazing. 199 00:09:27,610 --> 00:09:29,420 - She got to hang out with James Patterson 200 00:09:29,420 --> 00:09:31,220 and Toni Morrison for a night. 201 00:09:31,220 --> 00:09:33,220 - So that was kinda cool but one of the things 202 00:09:33,220 --> 00:09:36,040 that stuck with me, what James Patterson said 203 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:40,520 was it was his 12th book before he actually got traction. 204 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:44,330 So it's a long, you should-- - It's a long game. 205 00:09:44,330 --> 00:09:45,669 - Yeah, a long game. 206 00:09:45,669 --> 00:09:49,594 More than one book typically your third book before 207 00:09:49,594 --> 00:09:53,310 so you're building audience as you go along 208 00:09:53,310 --> 00:09:55,420 with each book and it's brick by brick 209 00:09:55,420 --> 00:09:59,280 and step by step and you've got to remember that. 210 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,737 And the life of a book has a long life too, 211 00:10:01,737 --> 00:10:04,612 that's the other thing, to always remember. 212 00:10:04,612 --> 00:10:07,295 - And not everyone is your audience. 213 00:10:07,295 --> 00:10:10,554 So when authors come to me and say 214 00:10:10,554 --> 00:10:13,900 my book is for everyone, I always say to them, 215 00:10:13,900 --> 00:10:16,130 no, your book is not for everyone. 216 00:10:16,130 --> 00:10:19,510 I hate to break it to you, so you have to find your people 217 00:10:19,510 --> 00:10:22,450 because when you do, you know how to market to them 218 00:10:22,450 --> 00:10:25,690 and that is a giant hurdle to overcome, 219 00:10:25,690 --> 00:10:28,340 and so once you do find those people, 220 00:10:28,340 --> 00:10:32,370 then you can find out how they like to use social media. 221 00:10:32,370 --> 00:10:35,935 You can find out how they consume media 222 00:10:35,935 --> 00:10:40,630 and so then you can very much narrow your marketing plan. 223 00:10:40,630 --> 00:10:45,092 And once you start to tweak those little things, 224 00:10:45,092 --> 00:10:47,270 it all starts to come together, 225 00:10:47,270 --> 00:10:50,575 and to Robin's point, that might be at book 12, 226 00:10:50,575 --> 00:10:53,730 or it might be at book one if you really, 227 00:10:53,730 --> 00:10:57,720 you know, get it right by some divine intervention. 228 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:00,372 But it does take time. 229 00:11:00,372 --> 00:11:03,791 - And nowadays, the marketplace really demands 230 00:11:03,791 --> 00:11:08,030 that the publisher really specify who the audience is 231 00:11:08,030 --> 00:11:09,510 more and more. 232 00:11:09,510 --> 00:11:12,450 For instance on children's books, if you're a children's 233 00:11:12,450 --> 00:11:16,233 book author, you have to know not only the age range 234 00:11:16,233 --> 00:11:20,330 of that child that you've written the book for, 235 00:11:20,330 --> 00:11:21,860 but also the grade range. 236 00:11:21,860 --> 00:11:23,960 So you have to be very specific. 237 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,420 The more specific you are, the more successful 238 00:11:26,420 --> 00:11:28,052 you're gonna be. 239 00:11:28,052 --> 00:11:31,410 - Let me ask you this, how has Amazon 240 00:11:31,410 --> 00:11:32,932 affected the book world? 241 00:11:32,932 --> 00:11:34,330 (laughs) 242 00:11:34,330 --> 00:11:36,670 - In about every way possible I would say, 243 00:11:36,670 --> 00:11:38,240 and I used to work at Amazon. 244 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:43,194 So you know, it is, it's definitely the powerhouse 245 00:11:43,194 --> 00:11:47,080 I would say along with Ingram in the publishing industry. 246 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,740 The two, and we get questions about either or, 247 00:11:50,740 --> 00:11:53,535 you know because Amazon has its self-publishing platform, 248 00:11:53,535 --> 00:11:57,160 it was Create Space, now it's been rebranded 249 00:11:57,160 --> 00:11:59,295 as KDP, Kindle Direct Publishing. 250 00:11:59,295 --> 00:12:04,080 But we live side-by-side really happily. 251 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:07,460 We at Ingram Spark, we can make your book available 252 00:12:07,460 --> 00:12:11,330 on Amazon directly just like if you went direct 253 00:12:11,330 --> 00:12:14,191 to Amazon, so that's a great thing. 254 00:12:14,191 --> 00:12:18,390 Amazon is one of Ingram's largest customers, you know? 255 00:12:18,390 --> 00:12:19,223 - Congratulations. 256 00:12:19,223 --> 00:12:24,223 - Yeah, so we treat Amazon with great respect and awe. 257 00:12:24,415 --> 00:12:25,892 - I love Amazon. 258 00:12:25,892 --> 00:12:30,892 - I mean who doesn't, but they are 70% of the book market, 259 00:12:31,460 --> 00:12:33,800 between 60 and 70, but then there's also 260 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,620 that other 30 to 40% of the book market that people 261 00:12:36,620 --> 00:12:39,311 can't ignore, and those are the independent bookstores, 262 00:12:39,311 --> 00:12:43,370 Barnes and Noble, libraries, and so they are 263 00:12:43,370 --> 00:12:46,920 this huge player in the industry but also 264 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,370 people have to understand that there is 265 00:12:49,370 --> 00:12:51,260 this whole other world out there 266 00:12:51,260 --> 00:12:53,674 that they have to give some love to 267 00:12:53,674 --> 00:12:58,140 and so through Ingram Spark, you can actually do that 268 00:12:58,140 --> 00:12:58,973 which is a good thing. 269 00:12:58,973 --> 00:12:59,806 - That is amazing. 270 00:12:59,806 --> 00:13:01,594 - A lot of people and you know this, 271 00:13:01,594 --> 00:13:04,340 they wanna see their book on Amazon 272 00:13:04,340 --> 00:13:07,732 but they also wanna sell books at their local bookstore 273 00:13:07,732 --> 00:13:10,210 or they want to see the book on the shelf 274 00:13:10,210 --> 00:13:12,380 of their local library, right? 275 00:13:12,380 --> 00:13:14,810 I mean that's really meaningful to the two authors 276 00:13:14,810 --> 00:13:16,520 and their communities. 277 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:18,554 - And I'm just gonna say, I love print. 278 00:13:18,554 --> 00:13:22,220 I love print magazines, I love the smell, 279 00:13:22,220 --> 00:13:25,775 I love the texture, they're so tactile, 280 00:13:25,775 --> 00:13:27,980 and it's so different. 281 00:13:27,980 --> 00:13:31,360 - Well print is still 70% of all the books sold. 282 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:36,270 I mean print as a technology, years ago when ebooks came out 283 00:13:36,270 --> 00:13:38,129 everybody was saying it was the death of print. 284 00:13:38,129 --> 00:13:40,511 That absolutely has not happened 285 00:13:40,511 --> 00:13:44,020 and it's, I don't think readers are ready 286 00:13:44,020 --> 00:13:46,570 to get rid of their print books unlike you. 287 00:13:46,570 --> 00:13:47,403 - I can't! 288 00:13:47,403 --> 00:13:48,460 - I still buy hardcovers. 289 00:13:48,460 --> 00:13:51,060 - Yeah, I'm such a hardcover junkie. 290 00:13:51,060 --> 00:13:53,260 - And my favorite authors especially 291 00:13:53,260 --> 00:13:56,154 I'm always waiting on the edge of my seat for Amy Tan 292 00:13:56,154 --> 00:13:59,150 and her next book she's absolutely my favorite author. 293 00:13:59,150 --> 00:14:00,820 - How about you? 294 00:14:00,820 --> 00:14:02,840 - Oh my god, that's so hard. 295 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:04,815 I'm a romance novel reader. 296 00:14:04,815 --> 00:14:07,170 - I'm a Steven King fan. 297 00:14:07,170 --> 00:14:08,509 - Oh yeah, absolutely. 298 00:14:08,509 --> 00:14:13,509 - Yeah, that's so hard, but I do love my hardcovers 299 00:14:14,090 --> 00:14:16,250 because I'm a beach baby and they stand up 300 00:14:16,250 --> 00:14:19,030 to the suntan lotion and the saltwater really well. 301 00:14:19,030 --> 00:14:21,114 - And that's the great thing about Ingram Spark, we can 302 00:14:21,114 --> 00:14:24,160 through print on demand technology, we can even do 303 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:26,911 a hardcover book review which is-- 304 00:14:26,911 --> 00:14:28,031 - That's amazing. 305 00:14:28,031 --> 00:14:30,540 - It's magical, I'm not kidding, it's totally magical. 306 00:14:30,540 --> 00:14:32,490 - This has been so fabulous. 307 00:14:32,490 --> 00:14:35,550 How can our viewing audience get ahold of you two? 308 00:14:35,550 --> 00:14:37,972 - So we're at ingramspark.com, 309 00:14:37,972 --> 00:14:40,954 you can find us, you can follow our podcast 310 00:14:40,954 --> 00:14:43,471 which is called Go Publish Yourself 311 00:14:43,471 --> 00:14:45,812 and Justine and I co-host that, 312 00:14:45,812 --> 00:14:48,171 and we would love for you to subscribe 313 00:14:48,171 --> 00:14:49,760 and be one of our listeners. 314 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,950 - Yeah, and also we're out on the road all the time so-- 315 00:14:52,950 --> 00:14:54,852 - You are. 316 00:14:54,852 --> 00:14:56,495 - You may bump into us in an airport 317 00:14:56,495 --> 00:14:59,391 or come find us at one of our events 318 00:14:59,391 --> 00:15:01,370 and you can meet us in person. 319 00:15:01,370 --> 00:15:02,850 - Thank you guys so much. 320 00:15:02,850 --> 00:15:04,051 - Thank you. - Thank you. 321 00:15:04,051 --> 00:15:05,650 - This has been Lea Woodford 322 00:15:05,650 --> 00:15:08,303 with Between The Lines, thanks for watching.